8月21日15:00，「霍比特E姐有约」第8期【HOW TO DEFI】的线上AMA如期举行，本期节目由霍比特HBTC全球商务副总裁Elsa Qiu主持，《How To DeFi》作者&CoinGecko 联合创始人 Bobby Ong受邀参加，与霍比特社区用户畅聊了关于《How To DeFi》一书以及CoinGecko的相关话题。

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以下为中英文实录：

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Elsa：Hi HBTCers, we are very glad to have @bobbyong from CoinGecko with us today! CoinGecko now is the largest and the best data aggregator!

亲爱的霍比特用户们，我们今天很开心能够请到CoinGecko的Bobby Ong来到我们的AMA现场。CoinGecko目前已经成为了全球最大，而且是最优秀的数据集成商。

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Hi Bobby!

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Bobby：Hi, thanks for the invitation to do the AMA here today!

大家下午好，非常感谢霍比特HBTC邀请我来到今天的AMA现场！

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Elsa：Most of HBTCers are using CoinGecko to check on project data.There are quite a lot of crypto-related data websites, can you tell us the majors features of CoinGecko?And before that, could you please do a intro about yourself?

我相信我们有很多的HBTC用户都在使用CoinGecko来查询一些项目的数据信息。目前加密货币相关的数据网站有不少，你能介绍一下CoinGecko主要有哪些特色？但是在此之前，可以先介绍一下自己吗？

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Bobby：Sure! I'm the co-founder and COO of CoinGecko. Together with my co-founder, TM Lee, we started CoinGecko in April 2014. It's been a very interesting 6 years journey with CoinGecko so far!

好的，我是CoinGecko的COO以及联合创始人。我和之前的联合创始人TM Lee, 一起在2014年4月份创建了CoinGecko。这六年对CoinGecko来说，是一段非常有趣的经历。

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Elsa：That's pretty early time in Crypto! 6 years！

6年了！这在币圈来说已经很久了！

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Bobby：Yup the space was very different years ago! Much smaller and way less coins back then

是的，那个时候和现在有很多不同。币圈当时还是很小众，而且币种也很少。

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Elsa：And now , the crypto industry is totally different from days back。CoinGecko is more and more popular now. There are quite a lot of crypto-related data websites, can you tell us the majors features of CoinGecko?

但是现在币圈已经完全是另一幅新的景象了。目前加密货币相关的数据网站有不少，CoinGecko的主要有哪些特色？

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Bobby：CoinGecko is the leading cryptocurrency data aggregator. Here are some of the features of CoinGecko:

●????? CoinGecko is independent – we have no external investors or shareholders. That way, we can maintain our data neutrality.

●????? CoinGecko has the most comprehensive cryptocurrency database, tracking nearly 6,000 tokens from close to 400 exchanges.

●????? CoinGecko tracks the cryptocurrency derivatives market?and leveraged ETF

market. We have one of the most comprehensive sections amongst data aggregators.?

●????? CoinGecko uses our Trust Score?algorithm to sort exchanges and overcome the rampant wash trading issue. Trust Score looks into exchanges' bid/ask spread, ±2% orderbook depth, web traffic estimates, and other factors.

●????? CoinGecko has a free API?that is used by many large crypto companies such as Etherscan, Trust Wallet, MyEtherWallet, Metamask, and many more.

●????? CoinGecko also publishes in-depth cryptocurrency reports each quarter. Here is the latest Q2 2020 report.

?CoinGecko是领先的加密货币数据聚合商。以下是CoinGecko的一些特点:

●CoinGecko是独立的——我们没有外部投资人或股东。这使我们保持独立，不受任何外部议程的影响。

●CoinGecko拥有最全面的加密货币数据库，追踪了近400家交易所的近6000种代币信息。

●CoinGecko跟踪加密货币衍生品市场和杠杆ETF市场。在所有的数据聚合器品牌中，我们也是最全面的一个。

●CoinGecko使用信任分数算法对交易所进行排序，并克服了猖獗的刷量交易问题。信任分数考察了交易所的买卖价差、±2%的订单深度、网络流量估计和其他因素。

●许多大型加密公司都在使用CoinGecko的免费API，如Etherscan、Trust Wallet、MyEtherWallet、Metamask等。

●CoinGecko还会在每个季度发布加密货币深度报告。以下是最新的2020年第二季度报告。

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Elsa：I read your book How to DeFi lately, which you made a comprehensive guide to DeFi ecology. I want to know what will you name this book in Chinese? So for crypto practitioners, who do you suggest to read this book?

看了您的书How to DeFi，对DeFi生态进行了十分全面的介绍，如果让您给这本书起一个中文名字，您觉得会是什么？您觉得How to DeFi这本书适合哪些加密货币从业者学习？

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Bobby：We have translated the book to Chinese and just called it How to Chinese. You can download the Chinese version of the book here:

https://assets.coingecko.com/books/how-to-defi/How_to_DeFi_Chinese.pdf

事实上这本书已经翻译成中文了，只叫它《How to Chinese》。你可在此下载该书的中文版:

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This is a beginners' guide to DeFi and is recommended for those that do not know what DeFi is about but want to learn more about it. It is a guide to the major DeFi projects and provide step-by-step guides for you to get started in projects such as Maker, Synthetix, Compound, and many more.

这是一个DeFi初学者指南，建议那些不知道DeFi是什么，但想了解更多关于它的信息的人来读。它是一个主要DeFi项目的指南，并逐步指导读者着手这些项目，如Maker, Synthetix，Compound,等。

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Elsa：I saw you quoted a lot data of 2019, when DeFi was only a concept existed on the Internet, and you started to write this book then. How do you see this opportunity one year ago? Can you share with us what other investments have you made beside this book?

看到书中引用了不少19年的数据，那时候DeFi还只是存在于网络上的一个概念，您就开始着手书写这本书，您是如何看到在1年前就看到这个风口的？除了写这边本书，还做了哪些投资方面的工作？

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Bobby：We are just a group of very passionate crypto users who keep updated with the latest blockchain developements. We saw a lot of activity brewing in the DeFi space and learned from them and got involved ourselves.

我们只是一群狂热的加密货币用户，希望能实时得到最新的区块链发展信息。我们看到了很多DeFi项目的筹划活动，向他们学习和并亲自参与到这些项目中。

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We honestly did not expect DeFi to explode in popularity this year. We just wanted to impart the knowledge that we have learnt in a book because it took us a lot of time to learn about DeFi and we believe it will be the same for anyone looking into this space too.

老实说，我们没想到DeFi会在今年大爆发。我只是想通过这本书传授我们的知识，因为我本身也花了很多时间来学习DeFi，我们相信对于任何人来说，想进入这个领域都是一样的。

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Elsa：Currently, Ethereum again seated on the throne of public chains by DeFi. In your opinion, what other issues that Ethereum exposed in this DeFi explosion? Will these issues be the opportunities for other public chains to catch up?

目前以太坊凭借DeFi再一次稳坐公链之王的宝座，在您看来以太坊在这次DeFi热潮中暴露出了哪些问题，这些问题是否会成为其它公链赶超的机会？

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Bobby：The 2 biggest issues with DeFi at the moment is:

a) High gas fees

b) Non user-friendly interface

目前DeFi最大的两个问题是:

a)矿工费很高

b)用户友好界面不够友好

High gas fees is one of the biggest barrier because it makes a lot of yield farming opportunities not profitable for users farming with small amount of capital. The high gas fees has made these yield farming opportunities only open to large whales and to reasonably profit, one needs to have at least $10,000 to start with.

高昂的矿工费用是最大的障碍之一，因为对资金少的流动性挖矿的人来说，支付了高额的矿工费后他们几乎没有利润可言。高额的矿工费，把这些流动性挖矿的机会只留给了体量大的矿工，因为要获得合理的利润，一个人至少需要1万美元。

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The other issue with DeFi is that many DeFi apps are not designed for mainstream audience. The interface is very hard to use and personally it took me a lot of time to get used to it. Curve for example is one interface which is really not friendly for users.

?DeFi的另一个问题是，许多DeFi应用程序不是为主流用户设计的。这个界面非常难用，我个人花了很多时间来适应它。以Curve为例，它的界面对用户来说并不友好。

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To the question on whether the high gas fees on Ethereum will allow other public chains to catch up - I really don't think this is possible. Ethereum has built up such a strong lead and developer mindshare that anyone wanting to reach a large audience will have no choice but to use Ethereum regardless of the high gas fees. Eventually the high gas fee issue will disappear with Layer 2 scalability and Ethereum's move towards ETH 2.0. I expect other Layer 1 smart contract platforms competing against Ethereum to lose further market share and slowly wither away.

关于Ethereum高昂的矿工费是否会成为其它公链赶超的机会这个问题，我认为这是不太可能的。Ethereum已经建立了如此强大的领先地位和开发者的意识，以至于所有想接触大量用户的人都不得不抛开高额的费用问题，继续选择Ethereum。而且这个费用问题也会随着ETH 2.0的转变而消失。我预计，其他与以太坊竞争的第一层智能合约平台将失去更多的市场份额，并慢慢萎缩。

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Elsa：What do you think of the DeFi mining events that people loved recently? Do you think there are pure hypes, or will they promote the development of DeFi ecology?

最近大家热衷于DeFi项目的挖矿活动，您认为这是否就是纯粹的炒作，还是能对DeFi生态的发展起到促进作用？

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Bobby：I think the high yield offered is very attractive and is getting the attention of many people. How long will the high yield sustain is another question altogether. I don't think the yields can stay high for a long time. Eventually it will all normalize to something more normal but now it serves as a good way to promote DeFi to many people.

?我认为它的高收益非常有吸引力，而且已经吸引了很多人的注意。但是这种高收益能维持多久是另一个问题。我不认为这种收益率能长时间保持在高位。最终，它会正常化，变成很普通的东西，但就现在来说它是一个很好的方式，可以促进DeFi的发展，让更多人了解到。

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Elsa：Security issues on DeFi occur frequently from early 2020, mostly the project collapses caused by smart contract loophole, we see the most representative one - the YAM collapse by its smart contract loophole a few days ago. Are these issues related to Ethereum? Are there any ways to fix it?

从2020年初以来，围绕DeFi的安全事件就频频发生，最常见的就是智能合约漏洞导致的整个项目崩盘，最具代表性的就是几天前发生的YAM智能合约导致的崩盘，您认为这些问题与以太坊是否有关系？是否具有办法从根本上解决这样的问题？

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Bobby：They are not Ethereum related but mainly as a result of unaudited smart contracts by the projects' developers. Teams need to be more careful when putting out smart contracts holding millions of dollars of user funds and make sure the code is audited otherwise many people may lose a lot of money and this may bring about very negative publicity that the team will find it hard to recover from.

它们其实与以太坊无关，主要是由项目开发者提供的智能合约未经审计而引起的。因此在推出智能合约时团队需要更小心。尤其是当拿着用户的数百万美元投资资金,一定需要确保智能合约代码通过审计，否则会致使很多用户损失大量资金,这会给团队带来非常负面的宣传，甚至团队将很难恢复。

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Many projects are not taking security seriously enough and it will not surprise me if a large DeFi hack were to happen making people lose millions of dollars. But we as humans will forget fast and soon after, people will go to the next DeFi app and pour millions into it again.

许多项目并没有足够重视安全问题，因此如果DeFi超级黑客出现，使人们损失数百万美元我也不会太惊讶。但人们总是很健忘，会再次一掷千金，投入到下一个DeFi项目中。

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Elsa：According to your observation, who loves DeFi more, the oversea community, or Chinese community? ?Can you tell us why?

根据您的观察，海外社区与中文社群，谁对DeFi更加热衷？具体表现在哪里？

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Bobby：At the moment, I would say the Chinese community is not very involved in DeFi. The reason I believe is simple - most projects are international and uses English for its website and discussions. There is no Chinese interface for many of these projects putting a large barrier of entry for the average Chinese person.

目前，我想说的是，华人社区对DeFi参与不多。我相信原因很简单-因为大多数项目都是国际项目，试用英文网站，而且也是通过英文社群来惊醒讨论。这些项目中很多都没有中文界面，这给普通中国用户设置了很大的障碍。

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Elsa：Bankless can be understood as de-banking (de-banklized), people think DeFi works in this way, do you agree?

Bankless可以理解成“去银行化”，有人认为DeFi就能起到这样的作用，您认同这个观点吗？

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Bobby：That is the original idea of DeFi, which is to have a way for people to go about their day-to-day activity without using the banks.

这其实是DeFi的最初想法，希望为人们提供了一种不通过银行就能进行的日常活动的方式。

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I think at the moment people are using DeFi as a way to earn higher interest in a zero (or negative) interest rate environment. ?

我认为，目前人们正把DeFi当成一种在零利率(或负利率)环境下赚取更高利息的方式。

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But to have DeFi as a way to go completely bankless, we are still quite some distant away.

但是，作为一种完全去银行化的方式，DeFi仍有相当遥远的路要走。

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